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Is the Gender Pay Gap Real?

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In which John examines the complex and tangled question of the gender wage gap, and looks at some of the reasons why women who work full time are paid less than men who work full time. Sources: The pay gap increases as workers age, and there is a pay gap across all education and experience levels and in almost all professions. Also, the pay gap is larger for women of color, across all education and experience levels: http://www.aauw.org/files/2015/02/The-Simple-Truth_Spring-2015.pdf The size of the gender pay gap depends on how you calculate it, but discrimination is a big factor in the pay gap: http://blog.dol.gov/2012/06/07/myth-busting-the-pay-gap/ and http://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/9118a9ef-0771-4777-9c1f-8232fe70a45c/compendium---sans-appendix.pdf The gender wage gap for MBA graduates increases over time: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-20/the-real-cost-of-an-mba-is-different-for-men-and-women Women's pay goes down on average relative to men once there are kids in a family; men's pay goes up. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-the-gender-pay-gap/2014/07/25/9e5cff34-fcd5-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html A really interesting, nuanced interview with an economist who studies the gender pay gap: http://freakonomics.com/2016/01/07/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ The wage gap won't close at this rate until 2056: http://www.iwpr.org/publications/pubs/the-gender-wage-gap-2012/ An analysis of the role race plays in the gender wage gap: http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/ The gender wage gap is 10 cents in New Zealand, and 37 cents in South Korea: http://www.oecd.org/gender/data/genderwagegap.htm The exhaustive and at times exhausting wikipedia article about the gender wage gap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_States In the U.S. (and most countries), most unpaid work is done by women: http://www.oecd.org/gender/data/balancingpaidworkunpaidworkandleisure.htm There's a pay gap among librarians, and male librarians are disproportionately likely to become directors: http://lj.libraryjournal.com/2014/07/careers/payday-lj-salary-survey-2014/#_ and http://www.ala.org/research/librarystaffstats/diversity/libdirectors Great overall information (if a limited data set) from payscale: http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/gender-pay-gap/job-type ---- Subscribe to our newsletter! http://nerdfighteria.com/newsletter/ And join the community at http://nerdfighteria.com http://effyeahnerdfighters.com Help transcribe videos - http://nerdfighteria.info John's twitter - http://twitter.com/johngreen John's tumblr - http://fishingboatproceeds.tumblr.com Hank's twitter - http://twitter.com/hankgreen Hank's tumblr - http://edwardspoonhands.tumblr.com
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Text Comments (16717)
mikeincatford1 (5 hours ago)
Get on public transport at 5:30 am and 11:00 pm there will be 80-100% men going to and coming back from work.
bebbalex (8 hours ago)
So by “unpaid hours” you mean the time a woman spends on housework or taking care of their own children? I’m so glad you didn’t host Crash Course Economics.
david Kells (11 hours ago)
Thank you! I will inform my female employer That she must now pay me to Clean my house (plus super)
Ruairidh McMillan (2 days ago)
Our society does not unilaterally construct gender. You aknowledge divergencies in choice and then select sociological factors as the standalone influence which shapes human behaviour. You're omitting factors, why? Politics? That isn't conducive to anyone's benefit, especially women.
Lets get this straight. The pay gap IS real, but its not about discrimination. For instance, you said men DON’T work more hours than women, but you are also counting the hours of unpaid “work” that women take part in WHICH REALLY ISN’T WORK! So that lowers the amount of hours women work, since it really isn’t apart of any sort of job, meaning we are closer to the amount of money women “really deserve”. Now lets get to the jobs that women tend to work in. Women tend to work domestic service jobs, while men tend to work blue collar jobs. You can go ahead and take an easy guess as to which one pays more. First of all, the average annual salary statistics between male and females don’t even take into account the hours worked or jobs/positions worked in the first place, so there is no point in assuming any of that. Every time someone makes an argument about the pay gap being based on discrimination, they miss one or two facts about the statistics and it completely invalidates what they are saying. You could also say “well it doesn’t help that social norms exist so that explains why women work so many ‘unpaid work hours’”, but clearly if people cared so much about social norms in the first place they would be gone by now. Once people realize a social norm isn’t, well, normal, then it is no longer a norm. Simple stuff people. The pay gap is based on life choices, not discrimination.
pfb03 (4 days ago)
No one ever seems to consider that women's sexual options don't correlate much with the money they earn, whereas a man's sexual options strongly correlates to how much money he earns. Maybe that is a driver of motivation or lack there of.
michael einhorn (5 days ago)
even the word wage gap is a lie. its an income gap, that doesn't even account for hours worked.
michael einhorn (5 days ago)
3:23 who is suppossed to pay for this work why would anyone expect to be payed for work they do for themselves. This is the sense of entitlement behind wage gap protests. It is a protest against personal responsibility. the pay gap is not a complex question. A simple statistic of a multivar analysis can do it. Its not a fuzzy issue. every single factor added to this analysis shrinks the divide. factoring in personality specifically agreeability (likelyhood to ask for raise) shrinks it to almost zero. There is debate over whether the difference in agreeability is natural or societal, but even if it is societal the blame falls squarely on parents (possibly public schools), NOT employers.
Dakota Church (5 days ago)
You wanted not to stir up debate, but all the people in the comments have been indoctrinated to not believe evidence and proof if it doesn't line up with what they want. I also like how many of them are completely misrepresenting some of your arguments, like the one about the disproportionate amount of household work based on stereotypical gender roles. The comments on this video are trash, and proof of why we need more education.
FlyingDeath 1227 (6 days ago)
Well I believe there is no wage gap. If there was a wage gap why wouldn’t companies just hire only women they would have to pay them less. But I understand my opinion may be wrong.
OsamaBin NuggetMan (6 days ago)
No
THE HIP-HOP HEAD (7 days ago)
*if you had a friend who works harder than someone else. Would you pay that person more?*
Hexed Hero (9 days ago)
I’m sorry, you’re a very bright man and very educational but anything controversial you should just stay out of to save your reputation. You’re only stirring up drama and feeding the fire. I’m sorry but there will always be a pay gap. You do a good job at trying to be unbiased but everyone will see bias in something so complicated and controversial. You do a good job at explaining your views but for a man of your caliber I’m saddened to hear this from you. go look at a construction site, I can guarantee that there isn’t a single woman there, and if there is, she’s the architect. And when a woman enters a field that is dominated by men, yes they’re paid less because the quality of work isn’t expected to be as good. But the same works the other way around, a man is usually worse in the veterinarian field. This field is dominated by women and when men enter this field they are usually paid less because the quality of work is expected to be less of that than a woman’s.
Jack Kemp (9 days ago)
You established that women make choices that take time way from work, especially if they have families. Yet when it comes to being hired less or hired for lower paying jobs you ignore what you already established and assume that the employers choices are made out of discrimination 5:22 against woman and mothers created by "our social order and how we *construct* gender." Considering that it's so natural to see women as the victim when the causes of the gaps aren't clear, isn't that evidence of "systemic bias" in favor of women.
Christian Dilger (12 days ago)
Tried to explain how there is no pay gap and he got mad and told me there is with no evidence. He doesn't change his mind about anything lol.
Paul (13 days ago)
Wow those comments listed at the begining of the video, it's good to know there weren't any reasoned criticisms with correctly place apostrophes posted in reply to your earlier video.
Floyd Mullins (14 days ago)
Then I have a question. Mentioned was the unpaid labor that women do. I thought having children was their choice, so now they need money for their choices? Also, if women were to get paid for that labor and the man does half wouldn't mean he still would be paid more? Just using the feminist logic. He would need to get paid as well. Equality.
Flying Moose (15 days ago)
Oh yeah, the completely made up wage gap, what about the very real work place death and suicide gaps?
Flying Moose (15 days ago)
Sad to see such a successful and popular man so misled. Wake up.
Pudding (16 days ago)
weather the pay gap is real or not depends on how you define it. if you say that women are paid less for the same job for the same hours, that is wrong. If you say that the pay gap is just the difference in overall earnings between men and women, then it does exist.
Unknown_Pringle69 (19 days ago)
Men statistically do work more hours actually......
Tenti Ninjai (20 days ago)
You say women do unpaid work, but you're really not considering the fact that a stay at home wife has access to the wages the working husband makes. So if you take into account that a family mans wages is to be split between a number of people, with the line of logic you're taking here we could also argue that men don't really make as much as you're saying they do because they're supporting a number of different people with it. It only seems fair to mention this if you want to put so much emphasis on 'unpaid' work even though they have access to the wages their partners earn and spend a lot of it on clothes, make-up and other female products..
Human Human (20 days ago)
I don't consider helping at home as an "unpaid job". Do you expect a man paying his wife or a woman paying her husband hourly for cleaning or cooking??? This is sick. And btw i've witnessed more discrimination against men than women. The wage gap is due to personal choices. And i think more women choose happiness over money and pursus the career they find more compatible with them. If you want the same pay checks try more communism where most of workers get the same salary hhh
Valdrim Andi Olluri (23 days ago)
This is so dishonest - and yes, I read the sources that were used.
Tempest Sanguine (23 days ago)
You just listed a bunch of reasons why the wage gap is a myth and then concluded at the end that it's real. Bizarre.
James Smeal (24 days ago)
How can you mention housework in dealing with a pay gap. No one pays you for housework and it has no effect on how much someone should get paid.
James Smeal (24 days ago)
The pay gap is 100% choice. This guy ignores large amounts of choice. But I guess he is trying to pander to feminists.
Angelo (24 days ago)
Employers will pay employees what they will accept. In a lot of cases, especially on the higher salaried end, these negotiations for pay are done on an individual basis and can vary widely. It may be the case that if you are a woman, that you are at a disadvantage because of an expectation of what you will take, how you approach the negotiation, what you expect as a result, etc. But my point isn't to say, "it's your own fault for not negotiating higher pay." On the contrary, what I'm saying is that this problem is more broad than gender or race. The fact that we can see this problem appear statistically when looking at gender or race is just an indicator of something deeper: the problem is a system that doesn't require standards.
I would make an argument but everything’s been said
Lex Blazer (25 days ago)
jesus John...you sure go down A LOT of faulty rabbit holes in this video....why even do this? Let's sum it up this way: making videos about the gender pay gap...which is arguably an all-together false concept, since the only thing the concept is useful for is creating an unsolvable problem that likely doesn't exist..... is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
Tasneem Uddin (25 days ago)
Women earn more than all other groups, including PoC men. But sexism right?
Samuel Muller (26 days ago)
Doesn't that unpaid work increase include the housewives? Because there are still many more women who are full-time caregivers than men, and that may distort the numbers. Plus - if a woman DOES work fewer hours than her husband, it would only make sense for them to do more housework etc. It gets to be a chicken & egg thing - and you're assuming only one causality.
RSVDCN (28 days ago)
its not discrimination, or unexplained. Its the way men and women negotiate and how they act. Men are more assertive and aggressive, so they're more likely to ask for more money, and be more competitive. + they work better paid jobs / harder jobs
Georgie Pineda (28 days ago)
The data doesn't support your conclusions. But is good data.
T R U T H (28 days ago)
The fact this has more likes than dislikes is absolutely horrifying.
T R U T H (28 days ago)
Last time I checked, I get $8.00 an hour working at McDonald's whether I'm male or female.
T R U T H (28 days ago)
No. That "gap" is from women choosing to not work as much.
Ox McGinnes (28 days ago)
There is an unexplained phenomenon... therefore God.... i mean Gender Discrimination. Sorry mixed up the religion a bit. But they all sound so similar.
Just Me (29 days ago)
No
Anonymous (29 days ago)
The reason why women are paid less is because it's believed that a man must be the provider; it is his responsibility, that's what it boils down to when you go back to the earliest form of payment.
Oscar Marsh (1 month ago)
It’s not true. Men choose to take higher earning jobs. This isn’t because women don’t get picked but because they choose different university courses
A_Fields_Bassin (1 month ago)
In the United States the wage gap is not real. The truth is the wage gap was not a true factual experiment. They used simple statistics that is the first thing you find when looking it up on google. After Obama said that women are pushed out of a quarter of their pay, the stupid theory got started again.
TheDarrylJohnsonShow (1 month ago)
Ironically, you are devaluing the choices that women make and reducing the value of all decisions to monetary worth.
Sirusness (1 month ago)
Gender wage gap is non existent. Just propaganda. You did not take note about the other factors. No discrimination as well. What about other jobs? Women working less hours?
Dragon Rexis (1 month ago)
No there is no difference between wages on women and men
I'm Evan - (1 month ago)
thomas sowell firing lane 1981 GET REKT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y021WAdUlW8
Michael Weston (1 month ago)
The pay gap is a myth. What about the death gap? 93% of workplace deaths are male.
Henrik Olson (1 month ago)
Pay gap isn’t real
Michael Snake (1 month ago)
Seriously?????? The pay gap has been debunked by economists who have dedicated much more of their time to studying this than you.
THATaGAMER Mg (1 month ago)
“Much of it is due to direct discrimination against women”? Didn’t u just say it 4-8% how is that much?
Vinh vũ (1 month ago)
Yes, gender pay gap exists because of multiple reasons, among these are college professional educational personal choices, lifestyle decisions, working hours, devotion to their careers, family responsibilities...direct discrimination isn’t one of them, otherwise employers would have been sued, plus, earring more doesn’t mean happier as men in general work way more hours in way more laborious dangerous jobs, can you just stop pandering feminists, I saw it in many of your videos both in vlogbrothers and in crash course, it’s purely stupid
Clorox bleach (1 month ago)
three words Equal Pay Act
Epic Gamer Kid (1 month ago)
No.
The NPC (1 month ago)
No.
FaZe Meme69 (1 month ago)
If you want to know a simple reason to why the gender pay gap doesn’t exist, if women really got payed 78cents to our 1dollar no men would be hired by jobs and all women would be hired
Meme Dealer (1 month ago)
An entry level job, same experience from the man and the woman, the pay per hour for both genders is what matters. No extra experience, no median, and tested multiple times.
Total Water (1 month ago)
You'll also have to account for location and conditions ie. - The cost-of-living can vary significantly by location and that often impacts wages. - A person willing to move/commute long distances (to where their skillset is in greater demand) will rightfully get paid more for working the same job/hours.
Wage Gap is a myth
sanZ (1 month ago)
women are paid less because they are less efficient and produce a less value to a company than why would they expect to get paid equal wages as a man?
Jsmes Wagner (1 month ago)
I've never seen that anywhere..most places have a pay rate per job not per sexual orientation..
Ken Christiansen (1 month ago)
Ok. NAME THE JOB that actually pays women less for the exact same job. We need to hold them to task.
Gavin C (1 month ago)
Learning that this dude is progressive really makes me question what lies his videos have spread.
Bill Boyd (1 month ago)
It is an earnings gap not a wage gap. If there is a wage gap, ie different pay rates for identical people in identical jobs, then it is being implemented by people in HR departments. The majority of people in HR departments are female. Why would these gender traitors disadvantage women?
harun razak (1 month ago)
Women earn less because of differences in choices, not sexism. Your description mentions that full time women earn less than full time women but forget to mention that: 25% of men and 14% of women work 41+ hours a week (overtime). 5.8% and 2.5% of women work 60+ hours a week. 12% of men and 25% of women work part time. Women in part-time (under 35) earn more money by 10%. Women earned the most in the 35-39 range of 11%. 10% of women and 4% of men work in this hour slot. The average weekly salary of part time workers is between 230 and 250 dollars. Whereas overtime workers earn 1100 dollars approximately on average. A 5x disparity in earnings. The Fair Labour Standards Act requires employees to pay their workers 1.5x the usual rate if they work overtime. Marital Status also affects the gender pay gap. Women who have never had kids or been married and earned a college degree earn 17% more than of the same description by the age of 40-64 according to the Bureau of Labour Statistics (2001). Single, childless women in their 20s earn more than their male counterparts located in central cities by 3% according to the US Census Bureau of 2010 IPUMS. Never married childless women regardless of age, race or location earn 6% less than men of the same description: US Bureau of Labour Statistics.
TheSm1thers (1 month ago)
If there's a gender pay gap, it's not for the same work. Regarding an equal number of women in senior roles, that's never gonna happen. Women are generally small and weak.
HowToDrawEmAll (1 month ago)
You guys lost a lot of credibility on this one. You have a responsibility to not spread misleading information to your impressionable, SJW fanbase.
James Taylor (1 month ago)
He's too scared to admit that the gender pay gap is a joke. Channels like this are so afraid to actually have a proper argument so they have to pander to their silly audience. It's too complex to say that men earn more than women because of discrimination. If it were true, then companies would only want to hire women. I'm sure if they did a study solely focusing on different male segments they would be able to draw all sorts of conclusions of discrimination on that as well. The truth is, it's 3rd wave feminist garbage who are pushing this nonsense.
Nadirah Damask (1 month ago)
I would love to see you debate https://youtu.be/8EK6Y1X_xa4 on the gender pay gap. I think Thomas Sowell would own you and he has been debunking the wage gap probably before you were born.
James James (1 month ago)
Except this is "wage gap", not "unpaid work gap". Talk about producing statistical errors..... Do you even multi-variate statistical analysis bro?? #FAIL
Carlos (1 month ago)
All I know is this past Monday on my day off I went to 5 stores looking for basic crap I don't need and in each store I went into I was the the only male shopper!! I mean it was like 11am and nothing but women in all these stores. The only men I saw where senior citizens being dragged by their wives. Not all the women had kids with them too and most were young looking. I felt like I was in a twilight zone episode.
gooble69 (1 month ago)
1:38 where is the evidence for the claim of discrimination? You brush this off by saying it's in the description but that is just lazy. Show evidence or shut the hell up.
gooble69 (1 month ago)
You then throw the big number of $241M/year due to (unproven) discrimination. Assuming this is actually true, that's about $1.50 per person affected. Is that worth all this moaning? Tell you what I'll give the nearest women to me $1.50 then you all can shut the hell up.
Andrew Think (1 month ago)
So you've learnt nothing.
preposterone (1 month ago)
Great to see facts, thanks for debunking the debunking of the wage gap!
RZX (2 months ago)
Short Answer: No.
Joshua Contreras (2 months ago)
Men usually get higher ranking jobs due to men most likely compared to men to take risks or ask for a raise
Leigh B (2 months ago)
Yea it exists, we all know that. But why didn't you make the clear distinction that it exists but not as a result of inequality?
Matt Iles (2 months ago)
Wow - i guess unexplained pay gap must mean discrimination then huh
Libertys Son (2 months ago)
The reason employers paid women with children less money is because they know, on average, that working moms need more time to deal with things like dropping off and picking up the kids, sick kids, school commitments, etc. Fathers tend to stay focused on their careers and mothers are expected to take care of the home and children even if they are working.
100K subs with no videos (2 months ago)
If I had a dollar for every time I showed this video to a feminist A woman would have 77 cents
Nils Freund (2 months ago)
Wanna win the gender pay gap debate quickly? Tell them this: Those calling for discrimination due to gender imply patriarchal forces in the work-place due to structures in our society. Well, what if we moved the sample-size of men and women from the system by studying the gender pay gap between man and women working as self-employed in the same sectors instead? Their salaries would thus only become a reflection of their productivity. Well, its been done, and the study (done in Germany) indicates that the gender pay gap ironically INCREASES once you factor out the so-called patriarchal forces of the work-environments (ie. study of genders working as independents/self-employed) The people advocating for massive institutional discrimination which must by all necessary means be dealt with are simple SOCIAL MARXIST IDEOLOGUES. Its dangerous, and should not be at the forefront of Western politics as they are today. Post-modernism and the deconstruction of bloody EVERYTHING is cancer!
D C (2 months ago)
This makes it sound like men purposefully discriminate against women and minorities. It simply isn't true. We hire the best people for the job. Why are you trying to factor in non-work activites? I don't understand this? So if someone spends work outside the home caring for family then their job should pay them more for this? Why? it's totally unrelated? What if men spend more time at charity events...Should we receive credit for that? Nope. Totally irrelevant. Men place more emphasis on work and dedicate more time to it on a whole. Therefore...they are rewarded more at work for it. So what? It's not that complicated. Discrimination against mothers????? What? No. It's not discrimination. If they want to spend their waking hours as a mother that's great, why should a job reward them for being away from work? It would be discrimination these people were paid the same for LESS work, which is what happens normally when WOmen have children.
Dan Trovato (2 months ago)
women do the bulk of unpaid work because their husbands go to work to bring home money they can both spend as they see fit. who has the power? who earns the money or who spends it?
Ftoo MeGlu (2 months ago)
Yes it's late. But the "Unexplained pay gap" is just men and women changing choosing different careers
Brookes Gafeney (2 months ago)
I know full well that the gap is due to peoples choices and preferences but yall really cant believe that a small percentage of employers are actually still racist and sexist? You cant possibly.
VoodooD0g (2 months ago)
90% of workplace deaths are man. more dangerous jobs are paid better (how about we close that gap first?). thats just one of 50 to 200 attributes that contribute to the average salary of a person.
Caiden Mejia (2 months ago)
Blame it on the society, why? Welcome to the open market of capitalism. Equity is never something we should be striving for.
EyesOfTheLion 11 (2 months ago)
BS!
puccilove00 (2 months ago)
Love you jooohn <3
77 aWAke 77 (2 months ago)
I agree their is a wage gap. But i believe a very small percent is actually discrimination. Also it makes sense an employer wouldn’t pay a mother as much as a man without kids, the mother has to take care of her kids and may ask for more time off, that costs the employer time and money he’d rather not deal with, its easier to higher someone without kids, male or female, that can work more and will be less likely to ask for leave.
Dustin Forbes (2 months ago)
Quick answer... no
neuralwarp (2 months ago)
Very interesting! I'd like to see you do something about other gender gaps: life expectancy, death at work, custody of children, prosecution, imprisonment, homelessness, suicide, and so on.
Ryan Pembrook (2 months ago)
No you're wrong: men do on average work more hours. You're right that there is a gender pay gap, but it's because of one simple thing: men on average work more hours. Why do men work more? One simple answer: maternity. Woman on average are more likely to stay home cause of children.
CAPTAINSHIVERS (2 months ago)
When you talked about the female lawyers who have children not getting as much job offers did you ever stop to think the reason why is because they have children. Meaning people who don't have children are more likely to work longer and be more readily available when needed. Because that might explain a lot about that certain statistic.
interanaut (2 months ago)
Yes i support gender gap... Why? Because there are no perks given to male.. Society don't care about men. Male don't get unconditional love. Male work with focus.. They don't waste there time in painting their stupid nails..
KGT UserCast (2 months ago)
Well a dollar is still a dollar.I can account for the wage gap. To the women who want to close the wage gap, 1. Women need to try to push for jobs typically as a "men's field of work", including construction, engineering and technical industry jobs. These jobs are more dangerous, and tiring, but pay more. 2. Push your physical limits. Even if all employees make the same amount, working overtime can get you more money. It is tiring, but well worth it. 3. Be more assertive for a raise. If you feel you deserve a more reasonable wage, speak up. All peoples, female or male, should speak out when things are unreasonable. It does not pay keep silent in some cases.
Alonso Aguirre (2 months ago)
i believe the discussion on wheter the gender wage gap exist is over. At this point, it is very clear it really does exist and is probematic. The discussion we should be having how to correctly solve it, which is a step ahead in the discussion.
Felipe Contreras (2 months ago)
Wrong again. Is yoga "unpaid work"? No, just like spending time with children; it's an activity many women *CHOOSE* to do. The "unexplained" paid gap is not discrimination, that's why it's called "unexplained". One reason could be that women choose to not work extra hours, another is that they don't want to take positions with more responsibility, and another is that they tend to not push for higher salaries. There are many possible expalanations, that 4%-8% isn't necessarily *ALL* discrimination. Geez. So disappointed.
VoxRationis (2 months ago)
I love the stuffy sweaty locker room smell of agitated meninists in this comment section. Grow up boys, it’s time to leave that childish invertebrate shell. For the love of all that is good, don’t let yourselves become angry incels.
Harvard Villegas (2 months ago)
How about women of race?
Asher Peterson (2 months ago)
I respect you, you're one of my role models, and I've read all of your books. But I can't agree with this video.
Abilio Prats (2 months ago)
Is the prisión GAP real ? the custody GAP? The health GAP? The working death GAP? .... repugnant western matriarchies, men are treated as slaves.
팩트폭행 (2 months ago)
It's not real. Period.

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