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Is the Gender Pay Gap Real?

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In which John examines the complex and tangled question of the gender wage gap, and looks at some of the reasons why women who work full time are paid less than men who work full time. Sources: The pay gap increases as workers age, and there is a pay gap across all education and experience levels and in almost all professions. Also, the pay gap is larger for women of color, across all education and experience levels: http://www.aauw.org/files/2015/02/The-Simple-Truth_Spring-2015.pdf The size of the gender pay gap depends on how you calculate it, but discrimination is a big factor in the pay gap: http://blog.dol.gov/2012/06/07/myth-busting-the-pay-gap/ and http://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/9118a9ef-0771-4777-9c1f-8232fe70a45c/compendium---sans-appendix.pdf The gender wage gap for MBA graduates increases over time: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-20/the-real-cost-of-an-mba-is-different-for-men-and-women Women's pay goes down on average relative to men once there are kids in a family; men's pay goes up. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-the-gender-pay-gap/2014/07/25/9e5cff34-fcd5-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html A really interesting, nuanced interview with an economist who studies the gender pay gap: http://freakonomics.com/2016/01/07/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ The wage gap won't close at this rate until 2056: http://www.iwpr.org/publications/pubs/the-gender-wage-gap-2012/ An analysis of the role race plays in the gender wage gap: http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/ The gender wage gap is 10 cents in New Zealand, and 37 cents in South Korea: http://www.oecd.org/gender/data/genderwagegap.htm The exhaustive and at times exhausting wikipedia article about the gender wage gap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_States In the U.S. (and most countries), most unpaid work is done by women: http://www.oecd.org/gender/data/balancingpaidworkunpaidworkandleisure.htm There's a pay gap among librarians, and male librarians are disproportionately likely to become directors: http://lj.libraryjournal.com/2014/07/careers/payday-lj-salary-survey-2014/#_ and http://www.ala.org/research/librarystaffstats/diversity/libdirectors Great overall information (if a limited data set) from payscale: http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/gender-pay-gap/job-type ---- Subscribe to our newsletter! http://nerdfighteria.com/newsletter/ And join the community at http://nerdfighteria.com http://effyeahnerdfighters.com Help transcribe videos - http://nerdfighteria.info John's twitter - http://twitter.com/johngreen John's tumblr - http://fishingboatproceeds.tumblr.com Hank's twitter - http://twitter.com/hankgreen Hank's tumblr - http://edwardspoonhands.tumblr.com
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Text Comments (16541)
Nils Freund (1 day ago)
Wanna win the gender pay gap debate quickly? Tell them this: Those calling for discrimination due to gender imply patriarchal forces in the work-place due to structures in our society. Well, what if we moved the sample-size of men and women from the system by studying the gender pay gap between man and women working as self-employed in the same sectors instead? Their salaries would thus only become a reflection of their productivity. Well, its been done, and the study (done in Germany) indicates that the gender pay gap ironically INCREASES once you factor out the so-called patriarchal forces of the work-environments (ie. study of genders working as independents/self-employed) The people advocating for massive institutional discrimination which must by all necessary means be dealt with are simple SOCIAL MARXIST IDEOLOGUES. Its dangerous, and should not be at the forefront of Western politics as they are today. Post-modernism and the deconstruction of bloody EVERYTHING is cancer!
D C (4 days ago)
This makes it sound like men purposefully discriminate against women and minorities. It simply isn't true. We hire the best people for the job. Why are you trying to factor in non-work activites? I don't understand this? So if someone spends work outside the home caring for family then their job should pay them more for this? Why? it's totally unrelated? What if men spend more time at charity events...Should we receive credit for that? Nope. Totally irrelevant. Men place more emphasis on work and dedicate more time to it on a whole. Therefore...they are rewarded more at work for it. So what? It's not that complicated. Discrimination against mothers????? What? No. It's not discrimination. If they want to spend their waking hours as a mother that's great, why should a job reward them for being away from work? It would be discrimination these people were paid the same for LESS work, which is what happens normally when WOmen have children.
Dan Trovato (4 days ago)
women do the bulk of unpaid work because their husbands go to work to bring home money they can both spend as they see fit. who has the power? who earns the money or who spends it?
Ftoo MeGlu (6 days ago)
Yes it's late. But the "Unexplained pay gap" is just men and women changing choosing different careers
Brookes Gafeney (7 days ago)
I know full well that the gap is due to peoples choices and preferences but yall really cant believe that a small percentage of employers are actually still racist and sexist? You cant possibly.
VoodooD0g (7 days ago)
90% of workplace deaths are man. more dangerous jobs are paid better (how about we close that gap first?). thats just one of 50 to 200 attributes that contribute to the average salary of a person.
Caiden Mejia (8 days ago)
Blame it on the society, why? Welcome to the open market of capitalism. Equity is never something we should be striving for.
EyesOfTheLion 11 (9 days ago)
BS!
puccilove00 (9 days ago)
Love you jooohn <3
77 aWAke 77 (9 days ago)
I agree their is a wage gap. But i believe a very small percent is actually discrimination. Also it makes sense an employer wouldn’t pay a mother as much as a man without kids, the mother has to take care of her kids and may ask for more time off, that costs the employer time and money he’d rather not deal with, its easier to higher someone without kids, male or female, that can work more and will be less likely to ask for leave.
Dustin Forbes (10 days ago)
Quick answer... no
neuralwarp (10 days ago)
Very interesting! I'd like to see you do something about other gender gaps: life expectancy, death at work, custody of children, prosecution, imprisonment, homelessness, suicide, and so on.
Ryan Pembrook (11 days ago)
No you're wrong: men do on average work more hours. You're right that there is a gender pay gap, but it's because of one simple thing: men on average work more hours. Why do men work more? One simple answer: maternity. Woman on average are more likely to stay home cause of children.
CAPTAINSHIVERS (11 days ago)
When you talked about the female lawyers who have children not getting as much job offers did you ever stop to think the reason why is because they have children. Meaning people who don't have children are more likely to work longer and be more readily available when needed. Because that might explain a lot about that certain statistic.
interanaut (12 days ago)
Yes i support gender gap... Why? Because there are no perks given to male.. Society don't care about men. Male don't get unconditional love. Male work with focus.. They don't waste there time in painting their stupid nails..
KGT UserCast (12 days ago)
Well a dollar is still a dollar.I can account for the wage gap. To the women who want to close the wage gap, 1. Women need to try to push for jobs typically as a "men's field of work", including construction, engineering and technical industry jobs. These jobs are more dangerous, and tiring, but pay more. 2. Push your physical limits. Even if all employees make the same amount, working overtime can get you more money. It is tiring, but well worth it. 3. Be more assertive for a raise. If you feel you deserve a more reasonable wage, speak up. All peoples, female or male, should speak out when things are unreasonable. It does not pay keep silent in some cases.
Alonso Aguirre (12 days ago)
i believe the discussion on wheter the gender wage gap exist is over. At this point, it is very clear it really does exist and is probematic. The discussion we should be having how to correctly solve it, which is a step ahead in the discussion.
Felipe Contreras (14 days ago)
Wrong again. Is yoga "unpaid work"? No, just like spending time with children; it's an activity many women *CHOOSE* to do. The "unexplained" paid gap is not discrimination, that's why it's called "unexplained". One reason could be that women choose to not work extra hours, another is that they don't want to take positions with more responsibility, and another is that they tend to not push for higher salaries. There are many possible expalanations, that 4%-8% isn't necessarily *ALL* discrimination. Geez. So disappointed.
VoxRationis (14 days ago)
I love the stuffy sweaty locker room smell of agitated meninists in this comment section. Grow up boys, it’s time to leave that childish invertebrate shell. For the love of all that is good, don’t let yourselves become angry incels.
Harvard Villegas (14 days ago)
How about women of race?
Asher Peterson (15 days ago)
I respect you, you're one of my role models, and I've read all of your books. But I can't agree with this video.
Abilio Prats (16 days ago)
Is the prisión GAP real ? the custody GAP? The health GAP? The working death GAP? .... repugnant western matriarchies, men are treated as slaves.
팩트폭행 (17 days ago)
It's not real. Period.
SuperJohnsmith (17 days ago)
"Gender discrimination" is just a red herring from what is actually going on. It's a result of life choices and what generally men and women find more important to live fulfilled lives, the freer a society the vaster gender differences become. As for things like "Men get supervisory roles easier" etc, that is down to many things, such as assertiveness, or commitment, some women (#notall) simply don't want to commit themselves to a higher responsibility in their work place because they have plans to start a family, or they already have a family and don't want to put themselves in a position where they may have to be more willing to do overtime etc. Also what is the point of bringing up house work? Do you think people should get paid for that or something? Female nurses aren't just getting paid less, they're working less hours, it comes across as disingenuous to present the statistics this way, it is illegal to under pay women for the same job as men and visa versa. So if you want prefect equality of outcome, you best start telling women to work more.
Jo Ho (18 days ago)
2:16
Eric Bass (19 days ago)
If the gender gap is real why wouldn’t everyone just hire females if it’s cheaper to do so..
Trey A (19 days ago)
It’s an earnings gap.
Wolfy (20 days ago)
There are university studies that *prove* men work more hours than women and take less time off, which is why they get paid more. You can't just say "actually no they don't" and not provide any evidence to back up your claim.
TheMightyDuo (20 days ago)
Louder with crowder, milo , ben shapiro, and Jordan Peterson have debunked this idea numerous times. It's based on variables and women choose not to work like men. If most women took the opportunity to work like men, they wouldn't like it or could deal with it like men and they love having a balanced life with family, house, friends, and etc. Literally, most males in my family work 4x more hours than the females and earn more because they chose specific jobs they like and know the result of the quality of the job. Women don't typically take jobs in the higher paid careers. Women typically are in the arts or humanities or social study programs. Men are in the more dangerous jobs.
c a t (20 days ago)
Everything you guys were posting was explained in the video.
John 316 (22 days ago)
There is 65ish genders. There is no pay gap
nick peter (22 days ago)
The few answers provided are glossed over and many are not even stated. Men on average work 5-6 hours more then women a week. Men are several times more likely to ask for a raise. Men are more likely to work overtime. Men are less likely to ask for time off. Women make more between 20-30. Women are forced to take months off because of the biological condition of being pregnant...something that's never going to change. Proven fact - The hormonal changes after pregnancy effect women and can change the decisions they make. It literally changes people's brain chemistry. The gender pay gap is a broad example. It includes fields with less then 5% women employees overall. Btw this isn't attacking those jobs and calling them sexist. Its shown women are less likely to pick up jobs in stem when given the option to do what they want. Women are far more likely to enter stem in countries where women have less rights. Also bringing up STEM...why is that always brought up? Why are plumbing/carpenters/electricians/welders and other fields just ignored? Literally no one is stopping women from entering these fields. Is it because women don't want to do them? Can only men do them? That sounds like some sexist thoughts right there. That brings up my next point. Men and women are different. What they want to do, how they do it, etc. The human brain between genders is vastly different. The only way to equal out the pay gap is to pay women more then men...even if they do less work overall. God it must be a nightmare to be a CEO nowadays. It's even worse as most women would preferably work with men over other women and women in leadership roles will pick men over women. At the end of the day there are so many variables that blaming everything on sexism is a cop out.
How bout' you chill (23 days ago)
why is everyone attacking john? He literally explained why it isn't only about sexism
EskChan19 (24 days ago)
Would you be so kind to provide ANY prove of that omnious wage gap you are propagating? You haven't given a single one. All the sources you link below the video are pretty much directly contradicting what you are saying. Because what you are missing is that most jobs give you different pay for job experience for example. Naturally, when there are children in the family, most of the time the woman either goes to Part-Time or stops working for a while. That's a while that any man will later have a direct advantage over. If they start at the same time, suddenly the man will always have a year more working experience. And that is just one of many factors. Yes i know, just screeching about not beeing given free handouts is easier than doing any work, but if you had really tried to look up any of these things you are bringing up here you would have found that all of them have been debunked time and time again, or are straight made up. But that's not what you did, because you want to virtue signal all over the internet what a good cuk you are for believing every lie you are told.
Billy Ashworth (25 days ago)
Majority of women aren't "saddled" with The extra unpaid work, they choose to take it on because their biologically inclined to be more nurturing and caring.
D Doc (25 days ago)
What's the conclusion. why are the discriminated against . is it the kids, or are they lazy, what is the answer. Or is that old chestnut Some men are white. that answer always works.
Platypus Paws (26 days ago)
Does unpaid work mean household & childcare? That isn't a fair measurement. The Male partner is providing for the woman & children, and that is their arrangement.
Platypus Paws (26 days ago)
But if you have unpaid housework & child work, aren't you likely to be living off a husband who works or the Govt? Nothing wrong with being a mother at all. But it isn't discrimination.
Jack Packwood (29 days ago)
It’s like he expects somebody to magically pay women for cooking food at home. Of course women who work less hours there going to get paid less it would be the same if a guy worked less then another guy.
Illegal migrants who work cash in hand get paid more than someone with a legit job.
ProGamer Poche (1 month ago)
My wife makes more money than me but works less hours. Am I a victim of discrimination?
Bryan Barnard (1 month ago)
The simple fix for this alleged pay gap is for the women who believe they've been discriminated against to identify as white male... kaboom, problem solved.
RORY DUNLEAVY (1 month ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcDrE5YvqTs take a watch some time^
Arthur Tedesco (1 month ago)
Thank God I’m a male (TRIGGER WARNING)
abram #0000 (1 month ago)
feminism is cancer and no longer needed in today's world, it is LITERALLY ILLEGAL to pay women less than men since the 1960, and the other thing that most feminist are mad about, is the birth control thing, yes we do realize it's your body, but you're carrying someone else's body, just because it's a baby doesn't mean it is okay to KILL it, do you even realize that after week 12 the baby can actually feel the pain during abortion, oh and think about the most brutal way to do it, a suction procedure, literally insert it in the vaginal channel and suck it out, its head and body part literally burst to pieces detached starting with the head, not saying this is the only abortion procedure that is painful, all others are too.
Acrix 888 (1 month ago)
No, no it isn't
: : (1 month ago)
Yet more anti indigenous nonsense in Britainahbad! This is about pushing white European women and ethnic men together (to procreate) by means of marginalising and empoverishing white European males......Courtesy of the Kalergi plan, the Barcelona declaration and the Merakesh declaration.... The mud generation commeth!
Boe Johnson (1 month ago)
I think your a very smart guy but stick to what you're good at, history. Current topics are not your strong suit.
dwarfie24 (26 days ago)
Who are you to decide that? He does his research whoch is more than I can say about you. If he is smart are you (we) dumb?
Batman (1 month ago)
That a small part of the wage gap cannot be explained by other economic variables doesn't mean it is necessarilly due to discrimination. That affirmation is based solely on ideology, no cientific base whatsoever
Justine Hecht (1 month ago)
Woot woot! Thank you John Green! Also, I see that many of the commenters seem to have missed the point of the video entirely.
dwarfie24 (26 days ago)
Lol so true they just see the title and get triggered.
Jay Bee (1 month ago)
In short, no
Jay Bee (25 days ago)
I watched it. what I learned is that the variables are too large there should be a definitive answer. But The only definitive thing I have heard and read is that all the studies that claimed there was a real pay gap did not take into effect women wanting kids etc etc
dwarfie24 (26 days ago)
Said a guy with no sources and who didnt watch the video. God day.
J W (1 month ago)
Multi-variable analysis of the wage gap show that it is actually an earnings gap caused by differences between the genders rather than because of sexist bosses.
Weston Welch (1 month ago)
The moment you use words like "feminazi", "edgelord", "SJW" or "far right", you already lose the debate
Bomor (1 month ago)
there isnt a gap because of genders it's because of other factors like hours works, over time work, or what job they have
Brad Trevenen (1 month ago)
240 million rounds to about $1.5 per American woman. That’s an unproductive metric, as is my irrelevant conclusion drawn from it.
Nathan Smith (1 month ago)
Mug
Susie McKeon (1 month ago)
the amount of non-nerdfighter engagement on this video...
Justin Greenman (1 month ago)
The wage gap is not a thing anymore after the equal pay act
Angel Larreal (1 month ago)
Unsubscribed. Bye.
Caylee Cowan (1 month ago)
Thats okay I don't need money. I'll take love.
Pharrell Taylor (1 month ago)
The wage gap is literally proof that men work harder than women..
Ruth Lynam (6 days ago)
that is a logical fallacy. 'working harder' is not a quantifiable attribute to study. men work more hours, but that fact is factored in for these studies. also, men working harder is not the only possibility to explain the gap, meaning just because that is your opinion, it is not 'literal proof'
straaak (1 month ago)
all the salty men in the comments
: : (1 month ago)
And all of the fishy wimin...
Ferrite Productions (1 month ago)
Trait Assertiveness
Fried Vegetables (1 month ago)
You're constantly misrepresenting the statistics you present. Women are not paid less, women earn less.
Grizzly Bear (1 month ago)
I think it has to do with hours spent working, when the two genders started working at the business, and how new or experienced they are at the job/field
Jake Waugh (1 month ago)
My whole thing is we almost had a women president (if it wasn't for Russia we would have had one), we have women CEOs of multi-billion corporations. we have women senators and women in many more powerful positions. The point is that if you want it, the opportunity is out there. This is America, there is no law saying women have to be paid less.
Aaroh Gokhale (1 month ago)
Aaaaah the stereo sound sounds so good
General Jims (1 month ago)
Fuckin' SJW's again
Marshall Rambo (1 month ago)
Earnings gap, its not a pay gap.... The only pay gap is in the military, where women earn the same as men but are heald to lesser standards.. But yeah you wont hear about that lol.
Oof (1 month ago)
People continue to believe that there is a wage gap because of the idiotic feminists who are like, "oh there's a wage gap no equality deport trump mansplaining blah blah blah."
Elliott (1 month ago)
We don't care about equal outcome. Uneven outcomes doesn't equal discrimination John. You shouldn't care about this, as if you wanted to close the pay gap, you wouldn't do it buy stopping sexism, you'd do it by encouraging women to join the workforce.
DONUT (1 month ago)
Housework. Its your house. You do what you want with it. No one is going to pay you to maintain your house. You are likely paying mortgage on that house anyways. Honestly that argument is just silly.
Rafael Andreas Lisberg (1 month ago)
Do they count tips into income?
TheHotcrumbs (1 month ago)
THE PAY GAP FOR THE SAME JOB IS THE SAME , THERE IS NO GAP , MEN JUST PUT MORE WORK IN , AND HAVE COMMISION BASED JOBS WHICH MEANS THE MORE YOU SELL THE MORE YOU EARN MAN OR WOMAN , MEN IN GENERAL ARE BETTER SELLERS !!!!
Dr_Dazed (1 month ago)
This video made me lose respect for your intelligence.
rekrn12345 (1 month ago)
Are you going to mention in the racial pay gap Asian males outperform everybody else by like 20%
Evan Goldman (2 months ago)
That unpaid labor you speak of. Ya those are called chores. And my parents didn't pay me for over 20 years of living in the home. Should I bring a lawsuit?
32ndSystem (2 months ago)
This is PBS telling you what to think.
The Griffenn (2 months ago)
No you are wrong. When you adjust for career and work hours, and go job for job.....WOMAN MAKE MORE THAN MEN. 100% proven and if you imply it's not it is a lie.
Y0sh1 (2 months ago)
It is illegal to pay a woman less than a man for the exact same job, with the exact same education. Under the Equal Pay Act of 1963. Any woman that is payed less than men is able to win a lawsuit against the company which is in question, as long as you have proof.
Brevin Ayres (2 months ago)
If companies pay women less why don’t they just hire all women?
Max Hamilton (2 months ago)
I mainly agree with john, but mothers are less likely to be employed because their children take precence over their work
Frank Guarneri (2 months ago)
There is an earnings gap, not a wage gap.
lucas plick (2 months ago)
Are they just handing these promotions to men or are men more aggressive and combative when it comes to negotiating for higher positions?
Isaac Morales (2 months ago)
Anyone notice that the statistical wage gap has gotten higher ever since feminism has made such an tremendous impact on school and colleges?
Ken MacDonald (2 months ago)
Because feminism is about political power, exploiting both men and women. Feminists encourage women to go into low paying low value fields and get an "education" in low value degrees, in order to inflame the idea highly educated women cannot get good paying job. These women are purposefully lied to, with these feminists deceiving them their degrees are symbols of education.
Swallae (2 months ago)
We can somewhat blame Obama for propagating this paygap myth
Breizh Formation (2 months ago)
Great work, as always!
Aseani Miller (2 months ago)
wow this is great i wanna be paid for cleaning my house too!!!
awardwin (2 months ago)
Why do woman act like they are doing men a favor by having kids? If it’s such a burden, have the damn abortion. Otherwise until you raise my kids, you can open your own damn doors. And now you want to be paid for doing housework? Why wouldn’t I just hire a maid and just not get married?
Pumba Nation (2 months ago)
You're ALMOST there buddy!!
xdygmnyrdf (2 months ago)
Someone explain to me, why there's almost no female car mechanics, for example?
Ken MacDonald (2 months ago)
The four stroke engine is clearly sexist. It has "stroke" right in the name! MISOGYNY!!!
titanfall 636249 (2 months ago)
The thing is girls take more time off to spend time with family and hell do the less harmful jobs but some girls do just not most so if anything there is no pay gap just girls like take more time off then men most of the time
Zendevil (2 months ago)
Exactly what JBP is talking about.
Christian Alkjær (2 months ago)
It is indeed very complicated, and to say the wage gap doesn't exist, is almost like saying gravity doesn't exist. In the sense that we can't quite explain what gravity is, thus it doesn't exist?! The wage gap is a fact, and what this video explains very well, is that the arguing really is about the causes of it. It's a very nice video, and I agree on almost everything stated. However, as the nitpicker I am, I'd like to question some of the constants, presented as such, in this video. Is it me, or doesn't the claim that discrimination still is a broad factor in the wage gap, somewhat rely on a bottom line where men and women are the exact same thing? That on an individual level, men and women are indecipherable, in a broad psychological definition? This question isn't to justify the current system of valuating human beings, or to suggest that the current identity markers used in society to identify gender is inherently true, but to dig deeper into the causes of the wage gap. And thereby maybe be able to make a system where the feminine psychological trades are valued higher, and thus minimizing the wage gap? Also when it comes the unpaid work, like housekeeping, taking care of the children and maintaining the family, isn't choice also a factor here? I mean the level of maintenance? In my line of work, I can't just decide how many hours of work I'll do and expect to get paid accordingly. There's an expectation from my employer that the work I do, can be done within a certain timelimit, and the wage is very much related to that. In the area of unpaid work, I suggest that the expectations of what needs to be done, is arbitrary, and thus we also need to address these expectations, whether they come from society or the individual doing the work, if we are to identify causes and solving the problem manifested by the wage gap?
Christian Alkjær (2 months ago)
I agree on every point, when the definition of the wage gap is as you define it. But how to talk about the scientific fact, that on a broad scale, women do earn less than men? What term to use? I agree that the causes of why women, on a broad scale, earn less than men, is misinterpreted as being mainly caused by the shear fact that the individuals in question are women. I agree that women do not earn less than men because they're just that. Women. I agree that would be a false statement. I was actually trying to point out, that a huge cause of the fact that women earn less than men in western culture, comes down to individual choice. But I do believe, that individual income plays a vital role, when it comes to the individual's opportunities in life. And while I think modern society has come a long way, evening out the various obstacles an individual might face, due to their various biological differences, such as gender, race and so on, there's no reason to think we can't do even better? But as the wage gap as a term, have lost its neutral definition, it is very hard to progress on the topic?
Ken MacDonald (2 months ago)
"In the sense that we can't quite explain what gravity is" We know gravity exists and can explain it very well, in the same way we know the wage gap doesn't exist and can explain why very well. The definition of "wage gap" is "women getting paid less men despite doing the same work". This is so clearly false, the only people who could possibly say so are either bald faced liars or the exceptionally ignorant. Further, the earnings gap (the statistical fact the average woman earns less than the average man) is NOT a "problem" to be solved. Men and women are different. Only science deniers could possibly claim these differences are a problem to be solved. Only a science denier could possibly claim the difference between men and women do not affect the career decisions resulting in differences in income. Why are you so sexist you think it's a problem women make different choices than men? Why do you hate women so much you want to coerce them into living lives identical to men's lives, despite the clear evidence women do NOT want this?
turtleZ Gaming (2 months ago)
🤦‍♂️
Zoologic21 (2 months ago)
"Positive, empowered choices individual women make to work less"? Jesus, you can't acknowledge a woman's decision without feeling it necessary to make it sound heroic? What other context can you think of where someone get's applauded for working adequate jobs or less hours? I'm not saying you call them losers or anything, but notice no one is praising the kid who decides to be a janitor all his life or chooses only to work occasionally in the office because he has other desires. I also don't understand how someone being debilitated should require compensation when it's something they choose to engage in. This isn't an accident or cerebral palsy, something that wasn't your fault, this is a decision to add another layer in your life that will require attention and inevitably keeps you from performing as you did before becoming a parent. It's selfish to insist on both, it's not a company's job to be considerate of your other dreams, as it's a business, and losing money, needless to say, is bad for business, especially when the terms of doing so are entirely voluntary and for personal gain at the expense of the company.
Kurai Kenshi (2 months ago)
Oh jesus christ, never liked this guy but gave hime credit for being rather intelligent. So the fact that women have a choice of profession and choose ones of lower paying or have good paying jobs but work less due to family is still pushing the pay gap. Dawkins nasty corpse the "PAY" Gap is a farce. Its all earnings from jobs that women have 100% choice in.
Heather Chapman (2 months ago)
My problem is with those to use this differences in paid work versus unpaid work between men and women as justification for promoting redistributive governmental and institutional policies, when there is so much evidence that individuals' income is a result of their own preferences - particularly in some of the freest societies in the world. Although we do have many technologies (birth control) that allow us to partially transcend our biological differences, there is ample evidence that gender differences (particularly in the distributional tails of those bell curves) are a significant factor affecting unequal results in pay. Denial of this, and persecution of those who point it out (James Damore), is not productive.
Desu Desu (2 months ago)
Your not accounting for the observed on average personality differences between men and women and how this on average effects whom is more likely to ask for raises and so forth...
Scolopendra Heros (2 months ago)
Try to get going to the sources. Just try it. From what I've heard when you control for hours and profession etc. Its 2%. Not sure where he got the 4%. I tried to go to the sources. As far as the women are forced to do the house work etc. this is not the 50's. If a woman is forced to marry a man and have kids and locked in the house those are crimes. Women may be making some choices here. When women enter given fields in great numbers don't the wages go down because there's just more labor available. Women get paid less after having kids because that's when many women start working less. Then the dad's get a pay raise because those "greedy capitalists" actually have a human side. Men and women with degrees of the same level have an especially large gap because men go for STEM and women choose more humanities.

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